Goofy kicked off this episode of Kickstand Conversations by saying he keeps hearing that group riding is safer than riding solo. Scott asked if we had any data to back that up. We didn’t. So instead of settling the question with statistics, Trekkie, Goofy, Scott, and I ended up trading group riding tips and stories from rides that went great and a couple that really didn’t. (I told Goofy it was a hook to get people into the video. It worked.)
If you’ve never been on a group ride, or you’re about to bring a newer rider along on one, there’s real stuff in here. Where to put the new guy, when you need a rider meeting, what to do when someone is making you uncomfortable, and how to leave a ride that feels wrong. We do get back to the safety question at the end. Sort of.
Want the whole conversation instead of the recap? Watch the full episode above. It has the jokes, the arguments, and Trekkie’s Le Mans story told the way only Trekkie can tell it.
Table of Contents
Is a Group Safer Than Riding Solo?
Trekkie went first. He feels safer in a group because a bunch of bikes is a lot easier for cars to see, especially at intersections. He was careful to say he has no idea whether it’s safer statistically. It just feels that way.
Goofy agreed on visibility but pointed out the downside. A lot of cagers don’t care that you’re a group and will cut right through it. Scott said the same thing happens at funeral processions, so it’s not just a motorcycle problem. Goofy also thinks the middle of a group is better protected than the ends.
Goofy brought up one more wrinkle from a police-led charity ride he did years ago. He said it was around a thousand bikes, from the stadiums in Philadelphia down to Wildwood, New Jersey. It was fun, but you have no idea who’s around you or how they ride. Same goes for Trekkie, who has never done a charity ride but would like to. Goofy’s reasoning was that if it’s vets, pets, or kids, bikers will ride for it.
Group Riding Tips for Setting Up a Ride
What Counts as a Group Ride?
I asked where a group ride actually starts. Goofy’s answer was three or more bikes. Two guys heading out is just a ride.
Put the New Rider in the Middle
If someone is new to group riding, Goofy’s rule is simple. Experienced rider in front, experienced rider in back, and the new rider somewhere in the middle. Make sure the leader knows the new person is new, so the leader is riding their ride and not his own.
Goofy did exactly this last year when his son joined the four of us. His son was a newer rider and wasn’t on comms, so Goofy stayed at the back and put him right in front of himself. His advice before they left was to ride your own ride. Don’t worry about the guys in front, because the only thing you control in a group is what you do.
Trekkie added a few basics for first-timers. Pick a meeting place that works for everyone, show up with a full tank, and start on time so there’s room to talk about how the ride will go.
When You Need a Rider Meeting
My first ride with more than two bikes was the Road Apple ride. I was nervous, mostly about hand signals. If somebody starts throwing baseball signs at me, what do I do? Goofy gave a short talk in the parking lot at Valley Forge, and that helped a lot. Trekkie said the same, and called it a very good ride apart from one crazy driver in a blue BMW.
Goofy said even a group of three should agree on signals if you’re not on comms. Trekkie said it matters most when there’s a novice, or when you know something tricky is coming. He pointed to the Bucks County covered bridge ride, where Spiff (Pat, a friend from the Discord) warned everyone ahead of time about bad road past one bridge. We all knew we’d turn around there, and it became a good spot for a break.
Goofy’s take was that four of us who know each other don’t need a meeting. Someone new might have group riding experience, but not with how our group does it.
When a Group Ride Goes Sideways
The Rider Who Followed Too Close
Trekkie and I told the story of a ride with a newer rider (we’re not naming him). He followed very close, sped up and slowed down, and kept ending up in my blind spots. When I ride with the guys, I know I can check my mirror and see someone staggered behind me. With him I kept losing track of where he was in the turns.
He wasn’t on comms, so we couldn’t warn him. We talked to him about following distance, but it didn’t really land. Trekkie also said he seemed overconfident, even on a road throwing gravel. Neither of us wanted to ride with him like that again.
It’s a hard one. We want the group to be open and welcoming, and we’ve had very few bad experiences. But you can’t always filter for it. Trekkie figured I’m the arbiter of who stays and who goes, and honestly, I’d rather have the conversation in the parking lot than not at all.
The Leader Who Rode Too Fast
Scott’s first group ride, before he found us, was with a leader riding too fast for the group. One of the older guys on a scooter finally peeled off and went home without a word. Scott said it was a miserable experience. Then he tried a ride with us, and he said it was night and day. Goofy walks everyone through the signals and the leg kick for gravel. Scott says that ride made him a better rider, and he uses a lot of it now when he leads rides with the BMW club.
Ride Down to the Slowest Rider
Goofy’s rule for leaders is to ride down to the least experienced person in the group. He knows what he can do, but he doesn’t know what the newest rider can do. I agreed. When someone says they’re nervous they can’t keep up, I’d tell them it doesn’t bother me at all to slow down. Nobody’s day gets ruined.
Goofy said if you’d rather ride your own pace as the leader, fine, but you can wait for everyone up the road. He remembered my sport bike buddy doing exactly that, waiting five or six miles ahead. Trekkie, who admitted he might have done the same once or twice, said any freestyling like that needs comms.
Comms Make It Better
Trekkie called comms the most attractive part of a group ride. They help when a traffic light or a pulled-out car splits the group, and they’re also just fun. Goofy said we’re always cracking jokes. I said it’s the camaraderie that separates a group ride from a few guys riding the same road at the same time.
Plan the Ride, and Run It First
If it’s the four of us going somewhere familiar, I don’t think a plan is needed. If there are more bikes, I like to plan it ahead and, ideally, run the route first. Otherwise you find out there’s fresh oil and chip or a closed bridge while you have six bikes behind you. Goofy runs his routes for the same reason.
Trekkie learned that one the hard way. He planned a covered bridge route and didn’t run it, and ran into oil and chip on one section. He did make himself a cheat sheet for the order of the bridges. The one thing he forgot was where to eat.
Where to Eat and Where to End Up
I called food arguably the most important part of a group ride. Goofy said that was debatable. Scott said it depends on the group. Some guys just want to carve roads. The club he’s in is a ride-to-food group, with routes built around restaurants, hot dog places, and ice cream.
Goofy likes the meal for another reason. It’s where everyone who wasn’t on comms finally gets to talk about the ride at a table. We usually ride together another ten or fifteen minutes after eating before we split up. Lately we’ve been picking new places, often small mom-and-pop spots, and I like that we’ve moved away from chains.
Goofy likes a destination, too. We talked about the Mascaro museum in Birdsboro (a cold one), Shady Maple for the Road Apple ride, ending a ride at Martin Moto, and the ferry across the Delaware. Goofy also forgot you have to hop on 95 to get back to 322 after crossing the Commodore Barry Bridge. I was not thrilled. Trekkie is pitching a late spring ride down to Perryville, Maryland, coming back over the Conowingo, with places to eat along the way.
How to Leave a Group Ride
I asked what you do if you’re on a ride and just aren’t feeling it. Goofy’s answer was blunt. You leave, ride your own ride, and don’t wait for the next stop. If you don’t feel safe, you can’t stay. Everybody goes left, you go right.
Scott’s version was more polite. Thank the group at the next stop, or just let someone know. He pointed out that as a leader he doesn’t want to wonder if you’re in a ditch, so a text goes a long way. Goofy’s counter was that someone will probably see you peel off anyway, since you’ve got a leader and a tail gunner.
Trekkie said it can be about more than comfort. If you’re struggling to predict other riders, or you’re just not riding right, you could put yourself and others in danger. He also bailed on his own bridge ride, with two bridges still on the list, because he was exhausted after nearly four hours of riding. Scott and I carried on without him.
Trekkie’s First Group Ride
Trekkie told us about his first-ever group ride. He was on a Kawasaki KMX 125, riding from London to Le Mans with three people he’d never ridden with (he only knew one of them). There were no comms, a lot of it was at night, and the bikes were old. One guy’s headlight was about as bright as a candle. Gas stations in France close early, so Trekkie carried a can of gas in his top box. They pitched a tent at the circuit in the middle of the night, and he said it was tremendous fun.
That’s why he was so eager to join the Road Apple ride. He said group riding is like an infusion of happiness for him, and that without it he might have sold his motorcycle. Goofy said he gets that feeling just getting on the bike, but a group ride takes it up ten notches. I told them that was a natural end right there.
So, Is It Safer?
We still had a question to answer. I said it depends on who you’re with, but I like having someone there if something goes wrong, since most of my riding is on backcountry roads where it could be minutes or hours until someone finds me. Goofy noted we might not even have cell service out there, and some of us carry a tire inflator and a patch kit. Trekkie’s maintenance kit, by his own description, is his AAA card, which he says covers him and anyone with him. Goofy has his HOG membership.
Goofy’s final answer was that solo riding is safer, because you control what you do and in a group you’re in other people’s hands. His words were that he’s “just a dumb truck driver.” Nobody changed anyone’s mind, which sounds about right for us. Leave us a comment and tell us which side you’re on.
Ride With Me
If you want more riding content, subscribe to the WaltInPA YouTube channel
and send this post to a friend who rides. Come hang out in the WaltInPA Discord too. Trekkie would love to get more of the group together one more time this year, and Goofy would like to see more new Discord faces on the rides than just the usual few of us, Spiff, and Jeff (another Discord regular and a close friend of Spiff’s).
You can also catch the guys on their own channels. Trekkie runs TrekkieMoto, Goofy’s channel is Goofy Bastard, and Scott has Scott’s Moto Adventures.
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